Episode 63: Food Gods
/WARNING: Don’t listen to this episode while hungry, because these stories are utterly delicious. We travel the world in this roundup, giving you stories of how Capitalism ruins everything, how not to serve your guests by vomiting, our favorite corn recipes, and just what positions we would play in Quidditch.
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- hosts: @JuliaSchifini, @ImEricSchneider, @shessomickey
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- music: "Danger Storm" Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
Transcript
AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 63: Food Gods. It’s a roundup, y'all.
JS: Man, it's been a while since we've done a roundup.
AM: I know. They are really nice. I never know what's coming at me next; if we're gonna do a story that’s super short, if we’re gonna do one that’s super long. But I had a lot of fun recording this one.
JS: I did too. And I think it was a really good follow up since we spent an entire week talking about spaghetti.
AM: We did. We did. Sorry to freak people out. It was very fun to watch everyone's reactions. Like, “Oh, my god, it's Monday. Oh, my god, it’s six minutes long. Waaa!” And, oh, man, it was a lot of work. And it was so much fun. It’s so good.
JS: It was totally worth it. I think it was probably our best anniversary yet, which, in comparison, there's only been two. But I think we totally raised the bar this time.
AM: We gotta raise the game every time. And we absolutely wanted to thank Eric Silver of Join the Party Podcast and a two-time guest on Spirits for writing all of those scripts. He wrote our voices so well that it was super easy to act. And it was really fun.
JS: It didn't even feel like acting. That's how well he got our voices down.
AM: I know. And, like, Julia and I actually got a little bit teary-eyed in Episode Five, where we were, you know, doing our little uniquely better speech. And it was like, “Oh, my God, I could have just said this myself. But, instead, it was on a page to begin with.”
JS: It was great. If you haven't listened to that episode or those episodes, get on it because we had so much fun doing it.
AM: And thank you to everybody who sent us their Spaghetti Warehouse recordings. I love that this is our brand now. And I do though actually want to go to that Akron Spaghetti Warehouse.
JS: You know how we could do that, Amanda?
AM: How?
JS: If we get 50 more patrons on Patreon.
AM: It is very close. It is very doable. When we get to our next patron milestone, we are going to actually go to Ohio. We promise. And we're gonna, like, live tweet it the entire time. We're going to take video. We're going to record an episode from Spaghetti Warehouse. Hopefully, from the trolley. And it is a genuine goal of ours. I really want to do it.
JS: We want to thank those who have joined us since we've set that goal. Amanda, do you want to list our new patrons?
AM: I sure do. Welcome to Kyle, James, Nick, Clau, Tom, Therese, Lauren, Craig, and Buggy.
JS: Yeah. You guys are awesome. You are the spaghetti ghosts of our hearts, I guess.
AM: Absolutely, the, the Marinara Mary's of our bathroom mirrors. And, as always, thank you for your support to our supporting producer-level patrons; Neal, Philip, Julie, Sara, Kristina, Josh, Eeyore, Sandra, Cammie, Lindsey, Ryan, Shelby, Lin, Mercedes, Phil, Catherine and Debra.
JS: You are almost never cursed by said spaghetti ghost.
AM: And, as always, to our legend-level patrons, who are absolutely not cursed at all; LeAnn, Ashley, Cassie, AshleyMarie, and Bridge. Welcome, Bridge.
JS: Yey.
AM: Jules, what are we drinking during the recording of this Food Ghost episode? Food. Well, oh, my god, the curse. The Food Gods Episode.
JS: Food ghost episode.
AM: No, that was last week.
JS: We were having a really nice breakfast stout, which you picked out because you are the queen of all stouts and porters.
AM: I am. I love a breakfast stout. It's like breakfast and beer at the same time. And, like, “Yes, thank you.”
JS: What more could you want?
AM: Beautiful. So, we – I don't know. We had so much fun last week. We are so grateful that we get to do this weekly, that we get to do this for you, and that we are rapidly approaching 75 and then a hundred episodes. Like, it's crazy to me that we're kind of barreling down that path.
JS: It's so cool.
AM: Oh, it is – it is really, really cool. But, in the meantime, thank you again. And we hope that you enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 63: Food Gods.
Intro Music
JS: Amanda, I’m hungry.
AM: Julia, we literally just spent two weeks making an audio drama about spaghetti.
JS: Yeah, I know. I’m still really hungry.
AM: I was also –
JS: And, now, I really want spaghetti.
AM: I was a little bit hungry the whole time. Not gonna lie.
JS: It was so good. But, yeah, so, I was thinking about how important food is today.
AM: Food is always important.
JS: Mhmm.
AM: When you get hungry, we need to stop --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- and fix that.
JS: Yes.
AM: And food is important to you.
JS: The food is important to me. I get very hungry a lot of the time. I also have very strong opinions on discount like chain Italian restaurants.
AM: You do. You do.
JS: Which anyone who follows me on Twitter would know about. I was thinking, today, I was making myself breakfast, which was tomato soup with some mustard greens in there.
AM: You’re weird.
JS: And, and some, some sourdough bread.
AM: You’re so weird.
JS: It was delicious. I was thinking about there's gonna be a lot of food gods in the world. And, Amanda, there are a lot of food gods in the world. So, this is a food god round up.
AM: Yey, food gods!
JS: I know. We haven’t done a round-up in a while. It's been a minute.
AM: No, it's been a minute. It's been a minute.
JS: Yeah. So, we're gonna start and we're gonna cover a bunch of stuff all over the place, which is my favorite kind.
AM: Oh, my gosh. I'm so ready.
JS: But, first things first, we're going to go to Japan.
AM: Ha. Yey. They have really good food. I bet they have really good food gods.
JS: Umm. We'll see about that.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: The first story that we're going to talk about is the story of Ukemochi, who is the Japanese goddess of food in Shinto mythology.
AM: All right.
JS: Her name means the goddess who possesses food. And she is associated with the god Toyouke, who is the god of food, clothing, and housing. So, story say that she is the wife of Inari, who is the God of rice, tea, sake, agriculture, and industry.
AM: What more do you need?
JS: I know. Those are all the things that I just need in my entire life.
AM: I know.
JS: It’s my day-to-day things.
AM: In your rider. You just really need them.
JS: Including sake. There's just always sake in my house.
AM: I know. Can we – can we go to like a good sake bar --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- and, like, just do like a tasting?
JS: Yes.
AM: I would love that.
JS: Let's do it this weekend. [Inaudible 5:29].
AM: Julia just looked at my like, “Why the fuck haven’t we done this already?”
JS: Why haven't we done this already?
AM: My birthday is coming up. Let's do it then.
JS: Okay.
AM: Cool. Cool. Cool.
JS: So, her main story is the one of her experience with Tsukiyomi, who is the moon God.
AM: Okay.
JS: So, Tsukiyomi was sent to Earth by his sister, Amaterasu, who is the sun goddess. And she sent him down to visit Ukemochi. The food goddess, who actually wasn't a particularly skilled cook, did the best she could.
AM: I mean, if she is the goddess of, like, agriculture and food as it is grown, I guess why she would be like, “Listen, my parts over. Like, y'all figure out how to cook it.”
JS: Well, at this point, she didn't have a dominion yet.
AM: Oh.
JS: This is how she gets her dominion.
AM: Oh, so, pre-god.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Oooh.
JS: Not, not pre-god, because she is a goddess at this point.
AM: Pre-specialization.
JS: Yeah, exactly. Nice. This is before they sorted her to a Hogwarts’ House.
AM: I’ve – I've been watching a lot of ER on Hulu, because their marketing campaigns are effective.
JS: Of course.
AM: And I was like, “Oh, like, pre, pre, you know, surgical residency. Like, choosing that thing?” Yeah.
JS: Yes, exactly. So, when Tsukiyomi arrives, she welcomed him by facing a rice paddy and disgorging, from her mouth, boiled rice.
AM: Huh.
JS: Then turned to the sea and spewed out all kinds of fish.
AM: Huh.
JS: And then, finally, turned to the forest and began disgorging delicious game.
AM: Wow. Really just a meet-cute for the ages, huh?
JS: So, she tried to present these foods to Tsukiyomi as a banquet. But the moon god was insulted because she was essentially offering him her vomit.
AM: Yeah. Also, disgorging is a – is an elegant word.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And I applaud you for your word choice.
JS: And, so, he draws his sword and kills her for this slight.
AM: Ooh.
JS: “Slight.”
AM: That's disproportionate.
JS: He returns to heaven and tells Amaterasu that he has killed her. And Amaterasu becomes so angry that she says she will never look at him again, which is the reason that it said that the sun and moon are never seen together.
AM: Yikes.
JS: So, that's not where Ukemochi’s story ends.
AM: Oh, good.
JS: Amaterasu sends down a messenger to honor the body. But the messenger finds that Ukemochi’s body has been transformed. From her head, come the ox and the horse. From her eyebrows, silkworms are born. From her eyes, they turned into cereals. Her belly is transformed into rice. And her genitals form into wheat and beans.
AM: Wow. That is a really genuinely beautiful image of like someone's body dispersing so that --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- you know, human beings can have the staple foods that we need.
JS: Yeah. So, Amaterasu takes these gifts that Ukemochi left behind and gives them to humanity to use and to cultivate.
AM: Wow.
JS: It's really, really cute and sweet. And I like it a lot.
AM: I also like that silkworms are included in there, because silk is like a material and a substance that is, you know, as important if not more than wheat and cereals.
JS: Hell yeah. I agree. So, that is Ukemochi.
AM: Aww.
JS: I think it's very cute and a little bit gross. And my favorite kind of things.
AM: Yup. That sounds exactly like the kind of story that you'd be like, “Amanda, guess what?”
JS: Amanda, guess what? She, she just puked up rice? It was great. Oh, we're gonna move to India next with the story of Annapurna.
AM: Ooh.
JS: So, Annapurna is an avatar or form of Parvati.
AM: Yes.
JS: Which I wrote down so that no one yells at us about my pronunciation.
AM: I know. We – listen, we read Harry Potter as children and formed our pronunciations then, people.
JS: Yeah.
AM: So, we are learning.
JS: Sorry. We're doing our best. So, it's Parvati.
AM: Parvati.
JS: So, Annapurna’s name means “filled with food.” And she is known as the goddess of food and nourishment.
AM: Oh.
JS: You'll see that a lot. That's a common, common thread throughout all these gods and goddesses.
AM: Yeah. So, like strength, fullness, you know, really nourishing your body, all synonymous with food.
JS: So, Parvati is told by her husband, Shiva, that the world is an illusion and that food is part of that illusion.
AM: Umm.
JS: Parvati, who is worshipped as the manifestation of all material things, becomes angry with her husband's assertion.
AM: Yup.
JS: Yeah. Because, like --
AM: That'll do.
JS: Come on, dude. You're just saying like – it's like being like, to someone who's a writer, you’re like, “Writing is not a real job. What's your real job?”
AM: Yeah, right. Or like, “Oh, that's cute that you do art. Like, excuse me, I’ve sold like multiple paintings. Please go away.”
JS: Yeah. Fuck you. So, like a true champ, Parvati – basically, it's a wonderful life out of here --
AM: Yes.
JS: -- to show the importance of all things material and disappears from the world. As you would expect, everything goes to shit. Time comes to a standstill. The earth is barren. There is no food to be found anywhere and all beings suffer the pangs of hunger including the gods.
AM: Well, gods, I wonder how that feels now.
JS: But Parvati is a compassionate goddess. Seeing the suffering, she felt for all of existence and reappeared on Earth setting up a kitchen in the City of Kashi, which is adorable. I like that the first thing she does, when she comes back, is like, “Well, I'm gonna open up a kitchen now.”
AM: I know. Like, you guys know how bad it was without me. So, here, you're welcome. I'm sorry. Enjoy.
JS: Yeah. So, Shiva hears of her return and runs to her presenting his bowl in alms and saying, “Now, I realized that the material world, like the spirit, cannot be dismissed as an illusion.”
AM: Huh.
JS: Which is nice. So, Parvati smiles. And she feeds Shiva with her own hands. And Parvati is then worshipped as Annapurna, the goddess of nourishment. So, in most of her temples and in art, she's portrayed as a young youthful goddess with a red complexion, a face like a round moon, three eyes, high breasts, and four hands.
AM: Sounds adorable.
JS: She's usually shown holding a vessel full of porridge in her left hand. And the right is holding a golden ladle adorned with various kinds of jewels.
AM: Huh.
JS: Yeah. So, like, really cute story about don't – you know, food is very good and useful to humanity. And we all need it.
AM: I know. And I think it's also probably a useful sort of allegory for like you can't transcend the physical world until your physical needs are met. You know –
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- it's, like, classical kind of Maslow's hierarchy.
JS: I was gonna just say that.
AM: Exactly. Yeah. Like, you can't, you know, dedicate yourself to, to study and learning and, you know, transcendence until you're able to, you know, meet your physical desires. And either that can be by, you know, making sure that you're fed and clothed and warm and all that stuff or I know, like, lots of kind of meditation practices, you know, sort of try to, like, separate the mind from the body's needs.
JS: Mhmm.
AM: And, so, like, either way, either you have to, you know, separate yourself from them or you have to meet them. And, like, until that stuff is done, you know, the physical anchors us. And you can't transcend it without dealing with it somehow.
JS: That's totally true. Oh, man. You just – you just summed up that, that Eastern philosophy or like, at least, a key component of Eastern philosophy pretty well.
AM: I know. It's a lot more nuanced than I probably understand.
JS: Yes.
AM: But that's what came to mind for me.
JS: Yeah. No, but you, you hit the nail on the head without much study of it. So, I appreciate that.
AM: Thanks, man.
JS: We're going to move over to the Aztec next.
AM: Yey.
JS: Apologies in advance, because I'm probably going to mispronounce a lot of these things. But I'm gonna do my best. This is the story of Chicomecoatl. So, her name means seven snakes. And she was the Aztec goddess of agriculture during the Middle Culture period and was known as the goddess of nourishment as well. See, we come back to that nourishment. AM: There you go. It's almost like food nourishes the body.
JS: Yeah. So, she was the female aspect of corn and was known as the goddess of plenty.
AM: Hmm.
JS: So, maize and corn was a main staple for the Mesoamerican diet and, thus, formed a important facet of native religious beliefs in the region.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, Chicomecoatl was represented in different forms to portray different moments of corn’s growth cycle. And a couple of the translations are just a little bit off, which happens a lot in Aztec and Mayan and just like general Mesoamerican stuff. Sometimes, it's Chicomecoatl. Sometimes, it's Cintoetl, which means deified corn and was a youthful god or Xilonen, which is fresh or tender corn who is a virginal goddess. So, Chicomecoatl was, in particular, supposed to represent the mature and ripened corn.
AM: I love that. You know, we, we see a lot of like different kind of – I know different things being embodied by different gods. But the fact is, especially for something that's so versatile and so important, you know, it makes a lot of sense to me that the corn, a thing that you look at every single day, will be a metaphor for different kind of aspects of humanity or a being.
JS: Yeah. Hell yeah. And it's very similar to some Western understandings of like, “Hey, this like life is cyclical. And our crops are cyclical. So, having different representations of the same deity makes sense.”
AM: Yeah.
JS: We see with Demeter. We see it with the Morrigan. We see it with all kinds of different things.
AM: Yeah. And the tradition in which we grew up, you know, Catholicism, Christianity --
JS: Hell yeah.
AM: -- places a – you know, a great importance on bread. Like, bread is symbolically significant. We conjure bread into, you know, the like flesh of our god every single --
JS: It’s a literal body of life.
AM: Right. That transubs – that transubstantiation-ish.
JS: That transubstantiation though.
AM: I know. But, like, I mean, point being, you know, nourishment is really important and gods that can provide nourishment are – you know, like, that is a sign of a – of a really powerful thing. So, you know, it's not like this is completely different to something that we grew up understanding.
JS: Hell yeah. Just finishing up with her, she is traditionally shown with a pair of corncobs in each hand.
AM: Nice.
JS: Which is just adorable. I kind of love that. Like, she's going to a – like, a barbecue or something.
AM: She’s just like, “Don’t worry.”
JS: Just like something barbecue.
AM: Brought it.
JS: Yeah.
AM: I'm just gonna say, in my head, I was about to ask like I wonder if she just kind of brings the same thing every time. And I was like, “No. That's like the most significant and versatile [Inaudible 15:05] all time.
JS: Maybe cornbread and corn pudding and corn on a cob.
AM: Exactly. All kinds of stuff.
JS: And, like, those like cool spice street corn and stuff like that.
AM: Yeah, all kinds of corn salads. You can make freakin’ delicious chicha and different beverages out of corn. Like --
JS: You’re making me so hungry.
AM: Babe, you should have dealt with that before we recorded.
JS: I did.
AM: Hungry again.
JS: I ate. I eat some samosas.
AM: Awww.
JS: She also wears a towering headdress that’s supposed to represent the shape of a ripe corn cob. It – in documents, her face and her body are also painted red, which I find interesting.
AM: Nice.
JS: I’m all – I’m all about it. Moving on. We've talked a lot about Demeter/Ceres before in the past.
AM: Yes.
JS: I just wanted to kind of touch on a few things that we just haven't talked about before. So, Demeter’s gift to humanity was agriculture, particularly, the cereals. She is blonde-haired like the heads of wheat ready to be reaped, which I think is really interesting.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Like, this is a very specific imagery. You know what I mean?
AM: Yeah.
JS: And, so, she is known as the one who separates the chaff from the grain for humans.
AM: Wow.
JS: She --
AM: That’s real.
JS: Yeah, I know. It's really like a really cool image.
AM: Yeah.
JS: The Greeks knew how to do imagery. I will give them that. There was a lot of like incest and stuff, but they did know how to do imagery. She was invoked to help the crops grow full and strong. And her emblem is the poppy, which I think is really interesting --
AM: Huh.
JS: -- because you’re assuming that it's wheat. But poppies are this, like, bright-red flower that are traditionally grown among barley. It's like, you know how, like, indigenous people, especially in the northeast would grow like squash and stuff with the – with the corn so that like they helped each other grow?
AM: Yes. And then Europeans were like, “We've discovered the greatest cultural thing of all time. What if –
JS: This is ours now.
AM: -- with your greens, you also grow clover?” And we were like, “People, come – wait. We know already.”
JS: We know.
AM: I know what you mean.
JS: We got it already.
AM: Yes.
JS: But, yeah, so, that was her representation of – which I think --
AM: That’s amazing. Yeah.
JS: I just think it’s really cool.
AM: Because it's symbolic of the thing.
JS: Yeah.
AM: It doesn't have to be like a literal representation of the thing. It can be, you know, a symbol associated with it.
JS: Which I really dig. I'm all about it.
AM: Yeah. And it's prettier.
JS: Yeah. So, then we're going to move on to a Canaan and Phoenician goddess known as Nikkal. And she was associated with orchards. Her name meant the “Great Lady and Fruitful” or just the goddess of fruit.
AM: Huh.
JS: Which is kind of cute.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Her name was later translated from the word “To Blossom,” which I think is really pretty. She was said to be the daughter of Khirkhibi, who is called the Summer’s King, which is a great title. I’m all about it.
AM: Oh, yeah.
JS: And she was married to the moon god, Yarikh, who gave her a necklace of lapis-lazuli as a wedding gift. I don't know why I included that. It just seems really cute.
AM: And moon-like moonstones are beautiful. Yeah.
JS: Well, lapis lazuli isn't a moonstone. There's a difference. It's very hot take.
AM: Wow.
JS: Sorry, a little salty there. My bad, friend.
AM: Yikes. I didn’t know enough.
JS: I didn't mean to. I'm so sorry. You're wonderful. So, she was said to be married in late summer when the fruit trees were being harvested. She is often depicted before a date tree and other culturally important fruit trees of the area, where would have been Nikkal’s orchards. So, they would be dedicated to her. So, the olives, figs, apples, as well as nut trees like pistachio, walnut, and almond.
AM: That's that good stuff, man.
JS: That’s that – I would eat all of those things together.
AM: I know. I would also commission a portrait of myself in front of those trees. Like, those are some good beautiful trees.
JS: I would definitely, like, do a portrait of myself in front of some cool olive trees.
AM: I know. I know, right?
JS: Yeah.
AM: It's like – it's like – I mean flowers are beautiful. Whatever. But fruit trees --
JS: Flowers are beautiful. Fuck them. But fruit trees --
AM: No. No. People enjoy flowers. I enjoy flowers. Well, I have five flowers on my body.
JS: You – but you can’t eat flowers though.
AM: I know, right? And, like you don't have to rear flowers over decades.
JS: I mean you can, but they’re not gonna sustain you.
AM: I know. I know. Fruit – I mean fruit trees are – my greatest dream, if we're going to get real here for second --
JS: Go, fucking do it.
AM: -- is for someone to like look at me on the sidewalk and be like, “You, you deserve it.” And then bequeath to be like multiple acre estate in Upstate New York with like a well-established fruit orchard. That's the most important part of this.
JS: Aww. I understand.
AM: I know. [Inaudible 19:28] build.
JS: Can this be our – can this be our joint farm, where I raise goats and you just do --
AM: Yes.
JS: -- like apple orcharding?
AM: Yes. Yes.
JS: Cool. I’m into it.
AM: I'm gonna trellis them.
JS: Aww.
AM: I know.
JS: So pretty. I love it.
AM: I know. Speaking of trellises, The Cloisters, the museum --
JS: Yes, my favorite.
AM: -- in – here in New York City, is one of my favorite places really in the whole world. And I have got to go this coming spring and summer, because they have like an outdoor section. Like a balcony patio garden thing, where they grow medieval – it's like a medieval museum. So, they grow like medieval witchy plants and herbs and like poison – they have a poison garden.
JS: I didn’t know that.
AM: Oh, my god, it's so beautiful.
JS: Oh, can we go?
AM: Yes. And they also have like elaborately trellised fruit trees and vines that are so pretty.
JS: I'm already down.
AM: Uh, they’re so beautiful.
JS: Um, I think, since we've derailed a little bit, why don't we stop and get a refill?
AM: Yeah. I, I want to get that, that gorgeous byproduct of grapes. Wine.
JS: Umm, umm. That one.
AM: We are brought to you this week by Tab for a Cause. It is a browser extension, a little – a little friend that you install in your browser on your laptop, or your desktop computer. Where, every time you open up a new tab in your browser, it shows a beautiful photo, and the time, and the weather, and a little ad. And that ad – what does it do, Jules?
Midroll
JS: It raises money to donate to some wonderful charities and some great causes.
AM: Yes, it is – it is for a cause. Your tab is now for a cause --
JS: I know.
AM: -- instead of taking up white bright pixels on your – on your – on your laptop there.
JS: Yeah, I actually – so, I downloaded it obviously.
AM: Nice.
JS: Because they’re wonderful.
AM: Did you go to tabforacause.com/spirits?
JS: Umm. Yes, I did, of course.
AM: Okay. Good.
JS: Oh, no. I just signed up with another URL.
AM: I don't know.
JS: Because I'm the worst.
AM: I don't know.
JS: Anyway. But I was going to research something. And I opened up my tab. And it was just this really beautiful picture of a sunset. And I stopped whatever I was typing and just looked at them. And I – it was just really nice.
AM: I know.
JS: And then I saw like they were almost at half a million dollars for the day or something like that. And I was like, “Dang.”
AM: Yeah, I know.
JS: Go Tab for a Cause, it's amazing.
AM: It’s from those ideas where you're like, “Of course, this should be a thing. Like, why hasn’t anyone thought of this yet?”
JS: Yeah.
AM: And, and it’s really great. And, also, the Tab For A Cause folks are gonna be keeping track of the money that team Spirits raises for charity. So, they're going to check in with us every so often. Let us know how much we've raised. And like actual money for actual charity. They track every user and the money that they raise over time. So, if you want to join up and with your empty tab space, a real estate that you're not using, get a little bit calmer and more centered and, and, you know, enjoy that beautiful photo and raise money for charity. You can go to tabforacause.com/spirits.
JS: Also, don't you want to be on a team with us?
AM: I know. We can make jerseys.
JS: We’re, we're cool team.
AM: I know. I wish I joined the Quidditch team in, in college, man. It’s too much commitment. Too much travel.
JS: It’s so funny. I need photos of that immediately.
AM: I know. I wish.
JS: Oh, man. That alternate universe where you actually join the Quidditch team, I need photos of that.
AM: They practice near my shift in the library.
JS: So, you look down upon them. Like, like the true Ravenclaw you probably would have been at Hogwarts being like, “Maybe someday I'll fly.”
AM: I know. Occasionally, I will go outside to study, gasp, and just be sitting there next to the Quidditch practice wishing that I were cool enough to wear knee socks.
JS: What, what position would you play? Not, not even for, like, college Quidditch. Just like Hogwarts’ Quidditch.
AM: General Quidditch?
JS: Yeah.
AM: I feel like it would have to be keeper, because I'm not quite butch enough for a chaser.
JS: Okay. Interesting.
AM: And keeper seems more – because it – you know, if it's like a broom-based sport – I'm sorry Tab for a Cause. But, if it's a broombased sport and you don't have to, like, run and shit, I normally just choose goalie because I don't want to run as far. But I don't know. Maybe it’ll be --
JS: Right. Same.
AM: Maybe it will be chaser
JS: I would 100 percent be a beater.
AM: Yeah.
JS: I would love being a beater.
AM: If you didn’t say beater --
JS: You’re just like a beater – like, like you just saw me for the first time, you’re like, “Hey, you [Inaudible 23:10].
AM: If you hadn't said beater, I was gonna be like, “Julia, we’re gonna need us some questions and conversations about your self-image, but that’s good.”
JS: Awww. That's like – that's like, fucking, Eric Silver. I was like, “I'm a ranger.” He's like, “You're a barbarian who thinks you're a ranger.” And then I cried a little bit.
AM: Yeah.
JS: But then I was like, “Yeah, that's true.”
AM: Yeah. Yeah, I know. Sometimes, fantasy universe just see into our soul. Anyway.
JS: Tab for a Cause.
AM: Tab for a Cause. Thank you for sponsoring us. Folks join Team Spirits. Tell us please in the tweets as you install Tab for a Cause and wait for like half-second for it to download. Tell us what position you play on, on the Quidditch team.
JS: Yeah. And go to tabforacause.com/spirits.
AM: Thanks. Bye.
JS: Bye. Let's go have a fucking banquet at Rome, because these are the gods – the goddesses that we would hit up. And their names are Bibesia and Edesia.
AM: That sounds like we won't confuse them at all.
JS: True. Not at all. Well, okay, so, they're dual goddesses. Bibesia is the Roman goddess of drink and beverages. Like, imbibe is the word that we get from her.
AM: Wow.
JS: Yeah.
AM: You got me back with linguistics. You just – have you seen Gravity Falls?
JS: Yes, I’ve seen it probably.
AM: You just looked exactly like that little cutie pie.
JS: Thank you.
AM: Little boy.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JS: The one that runs like an evil church.
AM: The evil little boy. Yeah.
JS: Got you.
AM: You just did a little, like, shimmy shake. Like, Oh, oh, oh, well, little old me.
JS: And then there's Edesia who is the goddess of food.
AM: Huh.
JS: Together they preside over feasts.
AM: Make sense.
JS: Which is kind of cool.
AM: Go hand in hand.
JS: So, they're specifically considered numen, which are a personified divine spirit. Bibesia was in charge of making sure that both the wine was of good quality and that it flowed freely so that everyone may have their share.
AM: Those are all very important that we should pray for.
JS: Very important thing. Thank you, Bibesia. Edesia was honored in order to give attention to food preparation and feasting and was considered the patron of gourmet food. Ha, ha, ha.That is the – that's my French chef laugh.
AM: We are just going all over the map here, and I am here to witness it
JS: Libations were offered to both by Bibesia and Edesia at banquets and feasts and were specifically associated with the luxury of city life, where food was bought and prepared instead of being like --
AM: Yes.
JS: -- grown and prepared.
AM: That makes sense.
JS: Yeah. So, they – they're really interesting. I liked them a lot. And I like my party goddesses.
AM: That made me think of the angel’s share. This idea, when you're doing like whiskey distilling or any – I think probably other spirit distilling, that like evaporation is a thing. And, so, over time, if you start to age like a full casket of whiskey, you know, up to like – a casket, a barrel, whatever.
JS: Cask.
AM: Cask. Not casket. If you --
JS: Not casket. It's not dead.
AM: I mean some stuff is dead, including the tree. That’s being [Inaudible 25:53]. But, in any case, like, whiskey will evaporate overtime. And, so, if it's, you know, like 70 percent of the – of the cask is full by the end of the aging process, the other 30 percent is the angel’s share.
JS: That's adorable.
AM: Yeah.
JS: I like them a lot.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And then there's like the devil's cut, which is just like in the wood, right?
AM: No.
JS: No. That's 100 percent a thing, because I saw a commercial where Mila Kunis tells me about it.
AM: Julia, is this dream or reality, babe?
JS: No, please. Hold on one second.
AM: I think we've been imbibing too much.
JS: Well, there is one – there’s 100 percent Mila Kunis Devil's Cut. Like – it's like a Jack Daniel’s thing I think or something. Some sort of Maker or a Maker’s Mark. It might be a Maker’s Mark.
AM: Julia, that is a brand of Jim Beam.
JS: Okay. Yep. That's it.
AM: Not real. Just a Jim Beam.
JS: No, it is. All right. Whatever.
AM: It's, it’s not a real – it's not a real like thing in the world. It's just a brand name.
JS: It is a thing of the world, because I saw a commercial about it.
AM: It’s not a cultural tradition.
JS: Okay. Whateves. They talk about the angel’s share though in that. There like, “Yeah, there's the angel’s share, 10 percent Devil’s cut.”
AM: That sounds like the, the newest entree at Outback Steakhouse. It's obviously not a historical thing.
JS: Okay. Let's come up with a --
AM: Just like, Julia, just, just, in case you were wondering like Taco Bell fourth meal is not a real cultural tradition also. It’s just a Taco Bell marketing gimmick.
JS: Yeah. But second breakfast is a fucking Tolken thing. So, fuck you. Also, can we come up with what the Outback Steak – Steakhouse Devil’s Cut Meal would be? I'm picturing it as a steak and then a like slice of lobster tail.
AM: Okay.
JS: And then another steak.
AM: Okay. I was going more Kangaroo Turducken inspiration. So, we’d have --
JS: They don’t serve kangaroo at the Outback.
AM: No, but they would serve a full lobster with a steak stuffed in it.
JS: They would. I'm, I’m partial to both of those choices.
AM: Over like a bed of risotto?
JS: Ew.
AM: That sounds pretty gross.
JS: Risotto, gross.
AM: Sounds pretty gross.
JS: I'd have it over like mashed potatoes probably.
AM: I know. I want to be richer, babe. But like truffle mashed potatoes.
JS: But their garlic mashed potatoes are the bomb there.
AM: I hear. I can't – I can't have – I can’t have garlic.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That is the devil's cut for me.
JS: It is the devil’s cut.
AM: It cuts right through the body. No good.
JS: Oh, boy. Okay.
AM: Now that you talked about my IBS --
JS: Now that we talked about your IBS, we're gonna talk about chocolate.
AM: Hey.
JS: Hey.
AM: I can eat that.
JS: Ixcacao.
AM: That sounds familiar. Like, cacao, the substance that I eat.
JS: Yo!
AM: Yes!
JS: So, this is the Mayan goddess’s name. And, as it suggests, she is the goddess of chocolate.
AM: Pew, pew, pew, pew.
JS: So, she's also a fertility goddess and an earth goddess in a society where gathering crops and seeing to it that everyone is fed was women's work and was the most important aspect.
AM: Obviously.
JS: I mean really, really cool. So, she was known for banishing hunger and providing safety and security for people. And that was her divine responsibility.
AM: Huh.
JS: Which I like quite a bit.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, she was much loved by the common people. And she was a compassionate goddess of abundance. She would walk among the people, understood their suffering and their fear of starvation, and, graciously, give them the knowledge and tools they needed to not only survive, but craft a life of abundance for themselves.
AM: That is really beautiful.
JS: Most importantly, she gave them the delicious gift of chocolate, which was said to give them energy to keep them working in the fields.
AM: Yum.
JS: Which, um, adorable. I love it. But things changed.
AM: Uh-uh.
JS: Things changed when the goddess is forced to marry Ek Chuah, who is the god of commerce. Basically, capitalism ruins everything in the story.
AM: Sounds like the natural state of order and abundance and sharing is messed up by commerce.
JS: So, her beans were no longer a gift, but rather were turned into a form of currency.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: The people could no longer enjoy chocolate, because it was forbidden and declared a food of the gods and was only allowed to be eaten by rulers and warriors.
AM: Oh, boy.
JS: She became important in the yearly sacrifice in order to appease the sun god. And she said to walk with the boy who was being sacrificed in order to give them comfort and give them a comforting glass of cocoa.
AM: Oft. I mean, on the one hand, I understand that the like, you know, reified and really exclusive thing would be given to someone about to be sacrificed.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Because like they were, you know, being seen as like giving up their life for a higher purpose and like ascending to, you know, being really important and like deserving of that.
JS: Right. So, traditionally, the sacrifice was chosen a year in advance.
AM: Yes.
JS: And was treated like a god for that year.
AM: Right.
JS: So, he was allowed to eat the cocoa.
AM: As they meet their fate and join the god.
JS: Yes, exactly.
AM: But it's still – it's still pretty messed up.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That a thing that gained popularity and significance and, you know, helped out the population by being a food of the people is, like, rewarded and elevated by becoming so exclusive and untouchable. Like, you should reward an elevated thing by making it more widely available.
JS: Yeah, I agree.
AM: Oft.
JS: It's like the reverse of what it should have been.
AM: It's like a parable that human beings should have learned from.
JS: Sounds about right.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, we're going to Ireland, Amanda.
AM: Wooh!
JS: Wooh! Ireland. So, we are starting with The Dagda, which is I – we looked it up.
AM: We did.
JS: Yes. That's how you pronounce it. So, the Dagda was a father god from Irish mythology associated with fertility, agriculture, strength, appetite, and, I shit you not this was included, manliness.
AM: Okay. Okay. I mean we get it. We get it, Ireland.
JS: Yeah. He was --
AM: Also, not a culture with a front relationship with food at all. No.
JS: Yeah.
AM: What are the chance? Good? No.
JS: So, he was supposed to be a intimidating person, the figure of immense power. He had numerous amounts of magical items that were supposed to make him said intimidating person. But, for our purposes today, we're going to talk about what translates to the un-dry cauldron. So, the un-dry cauldron was said to be bottomless and from which no man could be left unsatisfied.
AM: Aww.
JS: A little sexy.
AM: Aww.
JS: Aww.
AM: I wasn't going there, but now we're there.
JS: All right.
AM: Here we are together.
JS: Now, this is kind of out of place amongst his other treasures. Them, being a sort of light, a spear, a flail. But we have to keep in mind that the people of Ireland venerated fertility.
AM: Yeah.
JS: That was their, their jam.
AM: I mean my dad has 10 brothers and sisters. So --
JS: Right. Both in themselves and animals and fertility of the land.
AM: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
JS: Yeah. Yeah. So, fertile livestock and fertile land meant plenty of crops and food to sustain the people.
AM: Yeah, a culture, you know, that so often has dealt with starvation and blights --
JS: Yep.
AM: -- and kind of widespread you know, malnutrition. Fertility is a big thing.
JS: The source that I was reading makes a lot of references to the fact that a cauldron or a cup is a distinctively feminine thing, which is supposed to represent the womb.
AM: Yeah, it's, it's like – you know, it's the opposite of phallic. It's like a thing --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- into which stuff is poured and, from which, stuff comes.
JS: Right. And it was said that, while this sort of item can be – could only be created by a woman, it required a masculine identity, like, think the holy grail, to protect it.
AM: I – yeah. I, I can see that or a sort of – I mean there's lots of ways in which providing is a – you know, like a thing charged to men. You know, like, in this day and age, thinking about being a father or a husband or a head of a household, you know, you want to provide and make sure there's enough resources. And I can see how that would be sort of conflated or, at least, you know, crossed over with food and fertility over time.
JS: Right. So, Dagda, in this situation, is the guardian of this cauldron.
AM: Hmm.
JS: Which is interesting. I like that. So, this is – this is the dude you invite over for the potluck.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Because it literally never ends.
AM: That's awesome.
JS: It's such a good choice. So, the cauldron was actually said to be so potent that it overflowed with abundant food, could heal any wound, and was also said to restore life to the dead.
AM: Oh, wow. Just all of those.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Just all.
JS: Just doing all the thing. It's like they took the Holy Grail myth and they're like, “It also produces food though. Like, yeah, fuck it, food too. Lots of fish.”
AM: Yeah. I'm just picturing somebody who, like, is a [Inaudible 34:03]. You go up to their house and they’re like, “I have too much banana bread. Take some,” you know. And, and just --
JS: Just take all the banana bread.
AM: They’re just like, “You have to help me.” Like the cauldron is like [Inaudible 34:08].
JS: I took one piece, and it just keeps going. I am sick of bananas now.
AM: I stress baked these brownies. Please take some.
JS: I had a roommate who would – not stress bake. She would horny bake.
AM: What?
JS: You could always tell when she was about to get her period, because she would just, like, bake up like some apple crumble, and some brownies, and some pie, and shit like that. You just be like, Oh, what – you know what her face is getting close to that time of the month.”
AM: I mean it's not – it's not the worst thing.
JS: No, it could be worse.
AM: Right. And, like, I mean I don't know. Waitress. You know, there's, there's a conflation of baking and desire?
JS: Yeah.
AM: All right. I get it.
JS: I get you. Amanda, Amanda doesn't mean the occupation of waitress. She means the musical or movie.
AM: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know. Where she like, like pours her love and desire and lust into the pie that she's baking.
JS: Yes. And disappointment and shit like that.
AM: All of – all the emotions.
JS: All the emotions.
AM: All of them. All of them.
JS: We're going to finish off with Dewi Sri.
AM: Where is that myth from?
JS: That is a Japanese, Sudanese, and Balinese goddess that pre-dates Hinduism and Islam much like our Mermaid Queen.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Which one of my favorite stories.
AM: I know. I love that.
JS: Someone called, Amanda, the other day. I’m just like, “I really like that story too.” She's so sweet. I love her so much.
AM: I know. More, more mermaid queen fan art, please.
JS: Always, always Mermaid Queen fan art. So, she is the goddess of rice and fertility. And because of this, she is considered a mother goddess, obviously.
AM: Yeah.
JS: She has dominion over birth and life, because she controls rice, which is the staple food of the Indonesian people, which, in turn, makes her the goddess of life, wealth, and prosperity as rice surplus leads to all these things.
AM: Of course.
JS: Makes sense, right? But, at the same time, she's associated with the inverse poverty, famine, hunger, disease, and death, because lack of her food can destroy humanity.
AM: Oh, so, a sort of like double-sided goddess here.
JS: Yeah, which I love.
AM: That duality, baby.
JS: You know, we love things that are both. That’s our favorite thing.
AM: We do love things that are both. More things that are both fan art, please.
JS: More things that are both fan art, Yes, please. So, the animal associated with her is the rice paddy snake, which I didn't know was a species, but it's adorable.
AM: Oh, my gosh. Just Google it right now.
JS: Google it right now.
AM: Oh, what a precious danger noodle.
JS: It’s a good, good danger noodle.
AM: What a – what a good, good, good rope nope, nope rope.
JS: A rope nope?
AM: It's called a nope rope.
JS: A nope rope?
AM: I know. That – that's like an internet – an internet love meme.
JS: That’s a good internet one. I've heard danger noodle before, but I heard --
AM: Nope rope.
JS: -- nope rope. That’s great.
AM: That's my favorite. My brother's roommate has a snake, and her name is Dumpling.
JS: Dumpling, my favorite.
AM: And I am the proudest auntie to the snake.
JS: Ah, it's a very good snake.
AM: She's so good.
JS: She, she has a little like nose holes and stuff. She’s so cute.
AM: I know. I know. I know.
JS: I can’t stand It.
AM: I want to go meet her. So cute.
JS: And you can actually pet that, because it's not furry.
AM: It doesn't have anything that makes it unlovable. And, therefore, I can hug it.
JS: Okay. So, she is depicted as a youthful, beautiful, and curvy woman, the height of femininity and fertility. Because why not? She's all those things. She's usually seen holding a rice plant with full rice grains in one hand and adorned in regal jewelry.
AM: Hmm. That's a good look.
JS: It is a good look.
AM: If a girl came up to me and was like, “Here are some ripe rice grains. Furthermore, I'm wearing an emerald pendant.”
JS: Also, check out this emerald.
AM: I'll be like --
JS: Yes, please.
AM: Hello.
JS: Tell me more about your life.
AM: Do you know much about snakes? Not that I have any.
JS: Do you have a snake at home?
AM: This wasn't a phallic reference. I regret all my choices. Do you want to go out? That's basically how I end up seducing all the --
JS: It checks out.
AM: -- all the folks .
JS: That, that doesn't surprise me at all.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
JS: That's cool.
AM: Yep.
JS: Good job. So, I'm super hungry now. Really, really hungry now?
AM: Yeah. One of the – one of the benefits to living in Astoria, Queens here in New York City is that – it is a historically Greek neighborhood. And, so, there is just like, on my corner, a person selling just skewers of delicious meat and single pieces of French bread on a Styrofoam tray.
JS: Oh, it’s so good.
AM: And it is so good.
JS: And you can ask for extra lemon, and he'll just squeeze a bunch of lemon juice on top of it --
AM: I know. I know.
JS: -- as it’s grilling. And he's just – he’s the best person.
AM: Anyway, I have a feeling that Julia is gonna drag me out to have that in about five minutes.
JS: Either that or Chinese takeout, because I could really go for some fried rice.
AM: Anyway, listeners, what are you gonna eat right now?
JS: Email us what you're gonna eat right now if you’re listening to this episode.
AM: But, listen, I mean, food is – food is humanity, right? Food is civilization.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Food is the ability to, like, stop pursuing our basic caloric needs and, like, sit up and talk to each other and the universe and to seek meaning and to look up at the sky and wonder what's there.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like, to have a sense of permanence and to develop tradition. Like, food is from where all of us and all of our stories originate.
JS: Yeah. And so many of these gods and goddesses were considered like the mothers or fathers of their cultures.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Because they represented the food that was the staple that which all of the civilization was created out of, and that's super important.
AM: And I think it's actually a great opportunity to say that, if you like stories, we have food to thank. And there are ways to make sure that everybody can participate in the kind of myth-making and living and making mistakes and falling in love and like doing all the things that we can do once our basic needs are met. And, so, we would love to recommend two charities today.
JS: Yep.
AM: One of them is called Feeding America, feedingamerica.com, which kind of connects you to local food banks and allows you to make either financial or physical donations to places in your area if you're in the US. And then there's also whyhunger.org. WhyHunger is again a kind of charity assessing, like, acute food needs around the world. In particular, whyhunger.org/PuertoRico is enabling Boricua Farmers Association on the ground in Puerto Rico that are connecting kind of local farmers to people in need. So, you can make donations no matter where you live. You can send in money and help to, to support. Make sure that people all over the world are able to, to be fed.
JS: Heck yeah. And these are all good causes. And we can talk about food, you know, from our comfortable lives, but there are people out there who are seriously hungry. And they might be in your community. They might be somewhere else. And it's, it's really important to be aware of that.
AM: Yeah. No matter where you are, schools are a great place to go. Lots of them will have canned drives, food drives, or ways that you can directly help people who are needy in your community. You might not think that there are people there, but, you know, there are folks everywhere who could use a hand.
JS: Yep, absolutely. And remember listeners to stay creepy.
AM: Stay cool.
Outro Music
AM: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
JS: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us on Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook, and Instagram @SpiritsPodcast. We also have all our episodes, collaborations, and guest appearances plus merch on our website, spiritspodcast.com.
AM: Come on over to our Patreon page, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, for all kinds of behind-the-scenes stuff. Throw us as little as $1 and get access to audio extras, recipe cards, director’s commentaries, and patron-only live streams.
JS: And, hey, if you liked the show, please share us with your friends. That is the best way to help us keep on growing.
AM: Thank you so much for listening, till next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil