Episode 25: Time

It's time to get a little abstract! (Get it? Because it's about Time?) With dad jokes galore, we dive into the New Year head-first with deities and spirits who control what is to come in the next year. Nail down a funny, tipsy future full of pop culture flubs, Pokémon goofs, and weird holiday films with Episode 25, Time!

If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us on TwitterFacebookYouTube, & Goodreads, and review us on iTunes to help new listeners find the show. Plus, check out our Patreon for bonus audio content, director’s commentary, custom recipe cards, and more. We can also be reached at spiritspodcast@gmail.com.

Our music is "Danger Storm" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.


Transcript

AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 25: Time. 

JS: Time.

AM: Most distinct title ever. 

JS: Yeah. Well, you know, it's the New Year. We got to think about the future, the past, and time passing. So -- 

AM: Everything's a flat circle. Everything comes back. 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: It's – there's just – there's great shit in this episode, y'all. 

JS: Time Is nonlinear. Blah, blah, blah. Doctor Who joke, insert here. 

AM: Yeah. It's, it is, it's bigger on the inside than outside. I don't know. [Inaudible 0:20] great. Yeah.

JS: Yeah. That sounds right. So --

AM: So, what are we drinking? 

JS: Champagne!

AM: Yes. 

JS: Grea-

AM: Not my favorite beverage to be honest. 

JS: Really? 

AM: Yeah. I'm not really into the bubbly, but, in this case, I'm, I'm down for drinking champagne out of mason jars, which is my only available vessel. 

JS: You gotta pop the cork on this bad boy. Start the New Year right. 

AM: Awww. I like it. Well, in that spirit, we would love to welcome our newest patrons: Alexa Finley and Katherine K. And like, hey, guys, if you’re resolving to support art and culture that you love this year in 2017, why don’t you pledge a couple bucks to us on Patreon? You get access to exclusive photos, audio extras, show notes, recipe cards, more, and, you know, the knowledge that you’re helping us bring you this good, good mythology goofs every other week.

JS: I do have a good, good mythology goof. 

AM: We really do. 

JS: And we love seeing you guys shout out to us on Twitter and Facebook, And thank you for sharing us with your friends and families. 

AM: That is the best way to grow the show. And especially, this week, we’d love to just give some props to Angie, Doe Eyed Dragon, and friend of the show, Jeffrey Nils Gardner, for doing so this week. And, also, we’d love to thank our supporting producer-level patrons on Patreon: LeeAnn Davis, Shannon Alford, and Phil Fresh. Thank you guys.

JS: Guys, if you haven’t been listening to Our Fair City, you fucking should be because it’s amazing. 

AM: I know. I’ve also caught up on Wolf359. God, so good. 

JS: Also, huge shout-out to Joe L., who made the most gorgeous fanart of us.

AM: I want to make it my profile picture in life so, instead of me, people see this image. It’s so good. 

JS: It’s so cool. If you haven’t seen it, head over to our Twitter and our Facebook @SpiritsPodcast so you can see the amazing gorgeousness.

AM: Yes. The Spirits tee shirts that we are wearing in the fan --

JS: Oh, god. They’re so cool. 

AM: Oh, my god. 

JS: The little like skull necklaces and stuff.

AM: I know. I know. 

JS: It’s the coolest. 

AM: Our beers are clinking. Like our shoes are on point. Oh, my god. 

JS: It’s so good. 

AM: I can’t. I can’t. 

JS; I love it. 

AM: So, thank you again, Joe. And now, without further ado, enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 25: Time.

JS: Time.

Intro Music. 

JS: So, I've been thinking a lot about stories that I like in media. And I was particularly thinking about – I was relistening to the Thrilling Adventure Hour, which just had its last episode for a very long time.

AM: RIP. 

JS: And I was thinking about my favorite episode which is called Time Waits for Norman. 

AM: Hmm. 

JS: And it's a – it's a New Year's episode, which is kind of why I was listening to it, because I love New Year's and I like New Year's stories, which there's not a lot of them. 

AM: Yeah.

JS: But they're always time related. It's my favorite thing in the entire world. 

AM: Right. Like, like a Capsule episode or Groundhog Day type thing or a parallel universe. I love those as well. 

JS: Right. But I was thinking about this episode. If you don't listen to Thrilling Adventure Hour, they do a series called Beyond Belief, which is about two drunk like high society mediums. 

AM: Yes. 

JS: And they're fantastic. And they deal with supernatural stuff. So --

AM: Wait. They're mediums?

JS: You didn't know that?

AM: No.

JS: That's why they deal with supernatural stuff, because they --

AM: I literally only – I thought – I thought that's just the concept. It was them getting drunk in a nice apartment, which like it's pretty, pretty accurate. Yeah. Yeah.

JS: Yeah. That's not, not bad. Amanda and I saw the live show a couple months ago. 

AM: Yeah. I picked them. 

JS: Yeah. Jon Hamm was in it. It was – it was good. 

AM: God, John Hamm. He's so pretty in person, guys.

JS: Yeah. He is really.

AM: It's not fair. 

JS: He's really really cute. Anyway, so --

AM: Sorry. I gotta go [Inaudible 3:29].

JS: The, the show is called Time Waits for Norman. It's really interesting. It's a New Year's episode. I don't want to spoil the twist, but it's all about like reliving the New Year. 

AM: Interesting. We'll put link in the show notes for y'all.

JS: And, so, I was thinking about what other New Year's media that I really liked. And it's an older image, but I always remembered that Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer movie. 

AM: Okay.

JS: It --

AM: The message of which is that capitalism, you know, like, like mutual liability --

JS: No, no. Okay. It's not that Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer. It's one of those spin off ones of Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer. 

AM: Oooh. 

JS: And it's basically Father Time tasks Rudolph to have to rescue the baby New Year from something called the Archipelago of Last Year's. 

AM: Oh, my god.

JS: And I love this movie. All the islands are like different periods in time. 

AM: Oh, my god. 

JS: So, there's a prehistoric one with the cave man. There's one – the medieval period with knights. There's one that's 1776 and like they just celebrate Fourth of July every single day.

AM: The shot heard around the world was so momentous that it made itself its own era of time.

JS: Pretty much. 

AM: Like we go from caveman to medieval, which are – both of which are, you know, centuries long to just 1776.

JS: Yeah. I mean we're very – we're very centric. 

AM: Now, that was a good TV show. Let me tell you.

JS: Which was?

 AM: 1776 or what was it called? 

JS: The movie? 

AM: No, no, no. No. 

JS: My favorite drunk --

AM: No. 

JS: -- watching movies 1776.

AM: Not history's children. Revolution – not revolution children.

JS: Oh, the Liberty Kids. 

AM: Liberty Kids. 

JS: That was good.

AM: That was so good. 

JS: That was an excellent, excellent show.

AM: Oh, god. 

JS: Okay. But, anyway, going back to this Rudolph movie.

AM: You have to – you have to yank me back into the present moment. This is how this works. Yes.

JS: I know. I know. I do. So, the Rudolph movie sticks out to me because it is my oldest – and it's one of those like dumb stop action movies like Claymation. 

AM: Yeah. 

JS: But it's the first memory I have of this concept of Father Time. And I think that kind of is interesting to me because Father Time is supposed to be this representation of the full year. And then he's replaced by baby New Year, who then becomes the new Father Time and so on and so forth. 

AM: Is that real? 

JS: Yeah. That's like a thing. 

AM: That's horrifying. 

JS: Yeah. It's, it's used a lot in – like the representation is used a lot in political comics and stuff like that. 

AM: Okay. Okay. So, it's the reverse Benjamin Button of what we're saying to bring back a previous scope. 

JS: The reverse Benjamin Button is just normal human beings.

AM: Yes. That's how I refer to aging. 

JS: Okay. Whatever.

AM: But – no. But I mean is it the same? Does the – does Father Time get deaged to a baby and then just live out his life again? 

JS: No, no, no. There --

AM: Or, it's different. 

JS: It's a different baby. It's like – it's like the movie, The Santa Claus, where it's a new Santa Claus. 

AM: But that, that seems like a – like a horrifying accelerated death. Like then they just die and sorry?

JS: Yeah. 

AM: Wow. 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: That's really grim.

JS: Well, I mean no one ever shows Father Time dying. But just --

AM: Or it's just implied by his shuffle off into the like right-hand margin of the page. Therefore, death. 

JS: We're, we're off topic already. 

AM: Okay. 

JS: So, I want to talk about representations of time in mythology, in the storytelling.

AM: Cool. Love it. 

JS: So, we're going to start with Father Time because that's the one that like immediately comes to mind for me. 

AM: Yeah. 

JS: So, Father Time, as we know him, has that particular look. Can you describe Father Time to me at all? 

AM: It's just a wizened old man with a – with a robe and a cane. 

JS: Okay. Yeah. Elderly, bearded man. Sometimes, he has wings, which is weird. 

AM: Interesting. 

JS: He's usually dressed in a robe. And he's carrying either a scythe or an hourglass or some other timekeeping device. 

AM: Oh, okay. And like the – I'm seeing now like the old timey like stocking cap --

JS: Yes.

AM: -- type thing. 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: All right. Yeah. 

JS: Interestingly. 

AM: Like the grandparents in Charlie and Chocolate Factory, but less horrifying. 

JS: Yes I guess. 

AM: Yeah. 

JS: Do they wear hats in that movie? 

AM: I think, at some point, they do wear nightcaps.

JS: Okay. That's fine. So, interestingly, the look that we have for Father Time comes from two different sources; The Grim Reaper and the Greek God, Cronos. So, Cronos should not be confused with the Greek Titan Cronus. 

AM: Those sound confusingly similar. 

JS: They are. And they're spelled confusingly similar, but it's fine. So, Cronus, you might remember as the Greek Titan, who gave birth to live the main Greek gods. 

AM: Oh, hello. 

JS: So, Hera, Zeus, Poseidon, Hades. 

AM: Wow. It's not incest. It's normal. Yes. 

JS: Yes. But he's also the one --

AM: That's my takeaway from Greek history. Thank you. 

JS: He's also the one who ate all of his children. 

AM: Yep. That's the one. 

JS: So, Cronos is a titan as well. He never ages. And he's actually the one who supposedly produced the Aether, which is the upper air atmosphere, which is different than the air that mortals breathe. 

AM: Right. It's like elevated in some way. 

JS: Right. And he also produced Khaos, which is the gap between the heavens and the Earth. 

AM: Wow. That shit is a lot more literal than I expected. I love that. Also, like pause. Who named these titans to things that are so similar? It's like parents who named their kids like George and Georgette or Paul and Paulette, or Bridgette and Brad.

JS: I think it's one of those things too where one came before the other. And they adapted one from the original story. And then another. They were just like, "Oh, he's okay." Cronos also gave birth to Phanes,, who is supposed to be the Father of the First Generation of Gods and Titans and also the ultimate creator of the cosmos.

AM: Wow. That's a – I'm surprised I don't that name if he's such an important god. 

JS: Oh, he's kind of minor because his story takes place way before the story of the main gods that we think of. So, before Zeus, before Hera, before Poseidon, before Hades. 

AM: The Hobbit of the situation 

JS: Yes, it is. It's not even the Hobbit. It's like the – what's the other one? The Silmarillion or whatever. I can't pronounce anything to save my life. So, it's that kind of beforehand story. So, obviously, Crones is not the only story of a god or deity that's associated with time. And you guessed it. It's gonna be a time round up. 

AM: Hey.

JS: I want to like put in the music here where the – it's like basketball games. Like [Inaudible 9:51]. You know what I'm talking about? 

AM: Nope. Nope. I got nothing from that. No association. 

JS: Nope. All right. Or, like iSHi pop songs. Nope. Okay. Moving on. 

AM: Just, just the hype anthem. 

JS: Yeah. Hype anthem. 

AM: Okay. 

JS: Like – but not like a wordy hype anthem. 

AM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like, like it's roundup time. 

JS: Yeah. It's roundup time. No like da,na,na, na, na, na, na. No. More like --

AM: Oh, okay. 

JS: All right. Whatever. So, across from Greece – across the Mediterranean, our first stop is going to be Ancient Egypt, which we haven't talked about enough. I really want to talk more about Ancient Egypt. 

AM: Not very much. No. And it's probably the mythological system I know the most about shockingly because I took --

JS: That is a little surprising. 

AM: I took one Egyptology class when I was young.

JS: There you go. So, the Egyptians had a god and goddess combo, named Heh, like kind of the way you would spell a short laugh in a text, and Hauhet. They represented infinity or eternity. And Heh's name, in particular, means endlessness. 

AM: Nice. And I like the kind of complementary nature of those two names. I see them being, you know, duo.

JS: Yeah. I like it. It's cute. In depictions, Heh is shown as a frog-headed god, while Hauhet is shown as a snake-headed goddess, which I'm into. I'm into the snake-headed goddess. 

AM: Wooh. Yeah. 

JS: I think that's cool. 

AM: More snake-headed goddesses, please. 

JS: Yes, please. That'd be awesome. Heh, Heh is usually shown with a palm stem somewhere on their person. Sometimes, it's in their hands or in their hair because the palm stem represents long life in Ancient Egyptian culture. 

AM: You're talking about like a palm frond? 

JS: Yeah. But it's like the stem of the frond --

AM: Just the stem. Right. OK. 

JS: -- without the leaf. 

AM: Oh, huh. That's very specific for the [Inaudible 11:28] reindeer. 

JS: Well, yes. So, it's actually – this notched palm stem was used in ceremonial timekeeping in temples. So, each notch represented a year. 

AM: Oh, yeah. Sure. 

JS: So, a figure of Heh would usually be found represented on amulets, prestige items, and Royal iconography because he represented a long and prosperous rule. 

AM: Nice. 

JS: It's cool, right? 

AM: I love the idea that we're invoking the concept of long lastingness of the infinite of eternity in order to like bless this role. It's not just about prosperity or conquering or – you know, or health and happiness or whatever. But it really is about like channeling into the, the greater representation of, of longevity, you know, and playing into this role in particular. 

JS: And I think that works with Ancient Egyptian culture too --

AM: Yes.

JS: -- because the way that their afterlife is set up is very continuous and is very continue fighting the darkness versus the light until the end of time sort of situation. So --

AM: Yeah. You bring your belongings with you. You rejoin your family afterward. Like it really is, is kind of a, you know, jumping tracks --

JS: Right. 

AM: -- setting record. 

JS: And we'll talk about it later because the road to the afterlife in Ancient Egyptian mythology is really, really long. There's a lot of helping a dude fight a battle. But, if they don't win that time and they don't proceed as far, they have to keep doing it over and over again --

AM: Ooh. 

JS: -- until we get to the afterlife. 

AM: Like a – like the, the like initial gate tasks in a video game where you have to, you know, find your running shoes then your bicycle and talk to Professor Oak, who's like a weird step dad, and like continue, continue on.

JS: I never thought of Professor Oak as my weird step dad? 

AM: Well, I always just assumed that he was banging the mom. 

JS: Oh, damn. 

AM: And that's why we live so close to each other. And that's why – I mean that’s  why professor --

JS: I mean it's a small town, Amanda. 

AM: -- that's why Professor Oak is so excited to let Ash go on the trail. He's like, "Great, go home – go away from home, son."

JS: Oh, my god. 

AM: I just – I just assume that that was true. Is that not true? 

JS: I have never thought about that.

AM: Back check. Our producer is on the line. 

JS: Eric. 

AM: Eric, is that true? 

E. Schneider: No, that's definitely not a thing that happens at any point in Pokemon. However, there is a theory in which Ash's mom is in some kind of relationship with the Mr. Mime.

JS: Nooo!

E. Schneider: That she ends up having --

AM: The fingers. I see it. The fingers. 

E. Schneider: Yeah. I'm pretty sure he gets a nickname like Mimey or something. And, also, he like wears human clothes from time to time if I recall correctly. 

JS: That's true.

E. Schneider: He goes on a vacation with Ash's mom and he – they're – the two of them are just always together. But, yeah, there's nothing to suggest her and Professor Oak are in any kind of relationship, but possibly her and a Pokemon.

AM: Ughhh!

JS: That's terrifying. It's kind of like that except this is a video game where there's no checkpoints. So, imagine like if you don't finish it within a certain amount of hours, it starts you off at the beginning again. 

AM: The road to the afterlife? 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: Oh, shit. I have more questions, but I think we should save that for future episodes. 

JS: Yeah. We absolutely will. 

AM: All right. 

JS: So, leaving Egypt now, we're going to head over to Europe again with the Etruscans. Do you know the Etruscans are? 

AM: The name sounds familiar and our AP Euro teacher would be very embarrassed if I don't know who they are, but I will hand this over to you. 

JS: That's okay. So, the – when you're thinking about the Etruscans, think of them is like pre-Roman culture. So, mainly they were focused in the North of Italy. They pre-date Roman mythology and like before the Roman Empire.

AM: Cool. OG Romans. 

JS: Yes, OG Romans. So, the Etruscans had this goddess named Nortia. And, because she's very pre-ancient, there's not a lot of surviving information about her. 

AM: Sure. 

JS: And, so, we don't know much about her sphere of influence. We just know that it expands into time, fate, destiny, and chance.

AM: All the good stuff. 

JS: She later got folded into the Roman goddess, Fortuna. But she has this really interesting New Year's ritual that's associated with her. 

AM: Let's hear it. 

JS: So, Nortia's symbol is the nail --

AM: Okay.

JS: -- which, each year, her worshipers would go to her temple and drive a nail into the wall. 

AM: I see where this is going. 

JS: So, the ritual was said to nail down the fate of each person for that year and was also used as a method in the temple for timekeeping --

AM: Sure. 

JS: -- because the Etruscans use this method of calendar keeping that was marked by moving a peg.

AM: That is awesome. And do the nails accumulate on the wall or it's a new one every year? And they have over --

JS: It's a new one every year. And it's interesting. I think it's like a shifting process. 

AM: Sure. 

JS: So, they like move everything over and then that --

AM: Oh, wow. 

JS: -- accumulates the past. 

AM: I love that. And, when you say kind of fixing the fate,  does that mean kind of like, at any given moment, you know, your life is going in any different direction. And this is where we like pluck out the the particular future that you could have --

JS: Yes. 

AM: -- for this next coming year.

JS: Yes. It takes your future, which is sort of a chaotic thing, ever changing. And, by doing this ritual, the Etruscans believed that they were solidifying what their fate for that year was going to be. 

AM: That is so cool. 

JS: I really like that honestly. And I like the idea also of just like someone who's associated with woodworking and handycraftiness and --

AM: Right.

JS: -- a female goddess, who is a handy crafting goddess --

AM: Yeah.

JS: -- as well as being like of time and fortune and chance. Like that's an awesome talent. 

AM: I know. And like – and so much here to love too. The sort of like, you know, nebulous like sands of time run through your fingers. Like time feels to be this, this, you know, unending stream or kind of all of these little kind of objects that are impossible to hold in your hand. And, so, the idea that, that you are doing a really physical ritual. That you're, you know, putting something in place. That you're saying like, yes, chance exists in the world. You know, yes, I could do any given thing with my life at any given moment. And, actually, just saying, "All right. Over the next year." Like this is it. This is the moment. Like I've rubbed off my sins. Like, you know, I've done my best. I've done some reflection. And like – and here it is. I can really get behind that. 

JS: I totally would do that like ritual too. 

AM: Yeah. 

JS: It's really interesting. And I think it's so much better than watching a ball drop, and popping champagne, and kissing people at the end of the year. So, enough about Europe, we're next going to head over to --

AM: Spirits Podcast, enough about Europe. 

JS: Enough about Europe. Fuck, Europe. Not fuck, Europe. I'm sorry. 

AM: Not fuck Europe. Ten of our listeners – 10% of our listeners live in Europe. Guys, we love you. 

JS: We love you. You're awesome. 

AM: We love you. 

JS: We need to talk about other things though. 

AM: Okay. 

JS: We're going to Asia. We're going to talk about India and one of my favorite goddesses, Kali. 

AM: Kali. 

JS: She is an amazing badass goddess with so many great stories that we are eventually going to do an entire episode on her. But I want to just touch upon her today. 

AM: We could, for real, do an entire podcast, you know, with some cohosts on the mythology of Hinduism because there's so, so many great gods. 

JS: Insanely cool. It's really, really interesting. Okay. We're going to do it later. I promise. 

AM: Yeah.

JS: But here's a little taste of her for now. 

AM: Great. 

JS: Kali is the goddess --

AM: A little Kali appetizer. 

JS: Oh, my god. 

AM: Wooh! Starting the year off with a pun. I'm never gonna be a dad, Julia. But I'm an honorary dad because of these terrible jokes. 

JS: Yo do those dad jokes. 

AM: I do. 

JS: You do them pretty good. 

AM: The look at disappointment in your eyes --

JS: Yeah. 

AM: -- is my favorite thing.

JS: I'm glad. I'm so glad. Okay. Kali, she is the goddess of time, creation, destruction, and power. 

AM: Got that duality. 

JS: So good. Such a good combo. 

AM: So good. Yeah. 

JS: I love it. 

AM: I totally draft her for my like, you know, god fantasy football team. 

JS: Yes, 100%.

AM: Most of the thing, I just made up.

JS: I would do it in a heartbeat. That sounds like a great thing. Okay. So, Kali's name derives from many words or vice versa. Many words derived from her name including dark black, the fullness of time, and, more specifically, the changing aspect of nature that brings things to life or death. 

AM: Interesting. So, yeah, kind of like the ripening and withering, right? Like how they're going and coming and rain is coming and going. Like I, I love – even just extrapolating from that small taste that you gave, the idea that, you know, there's always potential for greater life and for death in any given moment, you know.

JS: Yeah. 

AM: And like things are cyclical. And, ugh, love it. 

JS: It reminds me of that Ray Bradbury short story, The Scythe. Do you remember that one? 

AM: I do. 

JS: Oh, god , I love that story. If you have not read that story, I highly recommend it. We're going to link to it in the show notes. 

AM: We will. 

JS: It is great. Okay. So, her name is also used for the appointed time or time of death --

AM: Hmm. 

JS: -- which is like the specific time in which someone is supposed to die --

AM: Wow. 

JS: -- just given their, their path I guess is the right word for it. 

AM: Oh, you mean it's predetermined. 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: Oh, shit.

JS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're appointed time. So, that's --

AM: Oh, wow. 

JS: -- the time that they got.

AM: That is so euphemistic and terrifying. 

JS: I love it though. 

AM: Wait. But when – like who and when knows this time?

JS: Kali does.

AM: Oh, I see. So, it's kind of like, when they reach their midlife, oh, it was their appointed time and Kali knew when. Aaah. 

JS: Right. That's like the – or, you know, if God – I don't know. God says it's time. 

AM: Look at life and death. Yeah. 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: Right. All these other things that we say. It's kind of the opposite of the previous myth we talked about, whose name I've already forgotten. 

JS: Nortia. 

AM: Not. The Erythrean.

JS: Oh, the Etruscans.

AM: The Etruscans. That's a book of the Bible. Yes. The Etruscans. Right. So, the idea is like your future can be whatever you want, except for that you pluck out this next year, you know, just at the moment. Kali is like, "Nope, I just got it all."

JS: Kali is such a badass. I love her so much. She's just – she just like looks like a cool goddess. And she's gonna look even cooler when I tell you about this next thing. So, she has this form called the Mahakali, which is also known as The Great Kali. And, in this form, she is shown to have 10 heads, 10 arms, and 10 legs. 

AM: Yeah. 

JS: Yeah. She's just like all over the place. 

AM: What is the significance? 

JS: Interestingly, so, in this form, she assumes the roles of all the other gods in Hinduism. 

AM: Wow. 

JS: So, there's like I think – I believe there's 10. I need to do more research on this. 

AM: There's like hundreds I think, but the major ones --

JS: The main 10. 

AM: -- they are 10.

JS: The main pantheon then I guess. 

AM: Yeah. 

JS: But there's probably a word for it in Hindi. I don't know the word in Hindi. 

AM: Sorry, y'all.

JS: So, in this forum, she gets all those powers from them because she's considered the mother goddess, because she represents the darkness in which all life and creation came out of. 

AM: Whoa. 

JS: And it's really interesting, in this form, she's holding all of the items that are representative of the other gods. 

AM: Yeah. I've seen her icon in that form. 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: But I just never knew like why there's so many arms, why she's holding thing.

JS: That's why. 

AM: Wow. 

JS: Isn't that cool? 

AM: Yeah. Teach me all these tidbits. 

JS: I love it though. And – but I love that her control over time is because she literally represents the darkness out of which everything was created. So, Kali was there at the beginning.

AM: Yes. 

JS: And she'll be there at the end. That's why she's called the destroyer. 

AM: That is so – I love – you know, I love a good kind of duality example. 

JS: Yeah.

AM: And especially, again, like this idea. And it really is like the more we learn about physics and quantum physics, like the more these stories make sense in certain ways.

JS: I totally agree. 

AM: Because like, you know, time is like the past and the present and the future are all coinciding. Like time isn't the only way that we move through the world. They're just – they're not simply three dimensions. You know, like, like, there are all kinds of so many more complex ways to understand our world. And it feels as if all of these stories that say, you know, the end is the beginning. Like, from whence we came, we'll all return. You know, parallel universes and lives and choices. And, ugh, it's just – it's also the fact that we keep getting examples and like things that point toward these things being physically true in the universe, just blow my mind when it comes like the sorts of stories that we've been telling for thousands of years. 

JS: Human beings are so smart. 

AM: We are so smart. 

JS: We told these stories to ourselves to explain this concept that we always knew to be true. And, now, we're proving it with science, and it's incredible. 

AM: Amazing. 

JS: Okay. One last story. We're going to swing back to the good old Americas.

AM: Home of the Brave. I don't know why I keep looking too big around. 

JS: I mean that's all right. 

AM: Sorry. Anyway. 

JS: You do it. It's because of the fireworks.

AM: It fucking – that's right it is. 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: Yes.

JS: Fireworks make the patriotic and cry a little bit.

AM: Yeah. Me too. Not just because of the ash in your eyes, but also because of the freedom. 

JS: Yes. Also because of the freedom. I love it. So, we are going to talk about a deity in the Sioux tradition known as Anpao.

AM: Cool.

JS: This is an entity genderless, like no gender. So, it's a they or a they. They have two faces. And they represent the spirit of dawn and the passage of the day. 

AM: Cool. 

JS: Love it. 

AM: Yeah.

JS: Awesome.

AM: Right. The origin of the day and then the fact that it goes away. 

JS: Yeah. So, Anpao, each day, dances with the spirit of darkness, Han, to ensure that the solar goddess, Wi, which is represented by the buffalo does not destroy and burn the Earth. 

AM: Wow. 

JS: Isn't that cool? 

AM: That's awesome. And, again, it's kind of the opposite of Maui, who we talked about in several episodes ago, where like the one time, you know, it kind of decided that humanity's day would be X long and that you know life would be life and death would exist and blah, blah, blah. But this is every day, you know, waking up and like making it happen for humanity. 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: Thanks so much. 

JS: To make it – to make sure we don't all burn to death, which I'm into. 

AM: And I would love to hear more about the buffalo representing what sounds like to be a really like terrible and destructive, but also life giving power. 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: If any listeners are Native American or indigenous, we would love to hear from you about your particular, you know, myths. 

JS: I also like the idea of the Sun being life giving and destructive. And I think that's a very human thing because look at – look at Icarus. 

AM: Indeed. 

JS: Icarus flew too close to the sun, got his wings all melted up, and then had to drown in the ocean because he couldn't fly anymore. 

AM: That's what he could do. And isn't the myth true that like that he was trying to chart a middle course. If he flew too low, he gets stuck in the sea. If he flew too high, he get, you know --

JS: Yeah. 

AM: -- suck by the sun. But, yeah, I mean this, this idea that like the thing that allows us to grow and --

JS: Live. 

AM: Exactly. Like, you know, pull oxygen out of the world and sustenance out of the Earth, it can also destroy us. And a super scary solar flare could happen anytime. Well, It’s fine.

JS: It's also like it's another example of humans knows so much shit. 

AM: Yes. 

JS: So, we tell ourselves stories. We’re like, listen, we know the sun is life giving. Like, if those plants aren't in the sun, they'll die. 

AM: Yeah. 

JS: But also --

AM: Fire is scary. 

JS: -- it could start a fire. God, just human beings are so cool sometimes. 

AM: Sometimes, we are cool, Julia. And I think that's a good – a good attitude to have going into the New Year. 

JS: That is true. 

AM: You know, things happen and you'll – you know, just feeling bad about whatever is happening in a given moment. But, honestly, like it really does give me a lot of solace, you know, to think about the fact that our lives are contextualized by so much more than we see everyday, you know. 

JS: Yeah. And I kind of like the image – kind of finish up this episode – of Anpao. This two-headed being who can look both backwards and forwards. 

AM: Yeah. 

JS: Because, to me, that's what New Year's is. New Year's is this time where we have to sort of reflect over our past year and look forward to the changes that we can make in the future.

AM: Or, don't want to make. There are things that we're happy about.

JS: Yeah. 

AM: You know, things we want to keep. 

JS: Yeah.

AM: I love that. Yeah. And Anpao, above – you know, above choosing just the one thing, above, you know, one gender or the other, above the kind of time that fixes us here in the moment, I think that's a really lovely – a really lovely myth. 

JS: Just takes a dance, saves us from burning in our own stupidity. 

AM: Honestly. And like, everyday, aren't we – aren't we in a dance with life and death, right? 

JS: We are. 

AM: Couldn't, couldn't death strike us at  any moment? Like just, just that idea that, that every moment is hard one. You know --

JS: We have --

AM: -- it's something I'm really into. 

JS: We all have to strive to be like Anpao. We got to strive to keep the balance between the light and the dark and keep it so. 

AM: Acknowledge it, right? 

JS: Yeah. 

AM: But live anyway. 

JS: Just keep going. Keep doing what you got to do. 

AM: Shit just got really motivational. 

JS: No. That's what I wanted. 

AM: Good job. 

JS: I want the New Year to be about the time that we have moving forward. 

AM: When we're going to take over podcasting, that was – that happened in 2017.

JS: Oh, yeah. 

AM: 2017. Okay. Yeah.

JS: The year of Spirits Podcast. 

AM: We got Kali with us. Yeah. Were in. 

Outro Music

AM: Spirits was created by Julia Schifini and me, Amanda McLoughlin. It's edited by Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman. 

JS: Subscribe to Spirits on your preferred podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook and Tumblr @SpiritsPodcast. 

AM: On our Patreon page, patreon.com/SpiritsPodcast, you can sign up for exclusive content like behind the scenes photo, audio extras, director's commentary, blooper reels, and beautiful recipe cards with custom drink and snack pairings. 

JS: If you like the show, please share with your friends and leave us a review on iTunes. It really does help. 

AM: Thank you so much for listening, ‘til next time

Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo

Editor: Krizia Casil