That’s right, we’re heading BACK TO THE PHILIPPINES! We chat about creation myths, supreme deities, and more importantly, the badass women goddesses of Tagalog religion. Amanda creates a brand new dance move that is sweeping the nation, Julia gushes over her love of etymologists, and Amanda admits her late-in-life cloud revelations.
Julia’s cocktail this week was inspired by the Ocean Mist.
Huge thanks to Shaker & Spoon for creating our Legend Patron boxes! Check them out and sign up for a box of your own at http://shakerandspoon.com/spirits.
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Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy tour through mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is episode 81, Bathala and His Daughters.
Julia: Yeah. I am excited for this one. It's nice to take a trip back to the Philippines for this episode.
Amanda: Absolutely. It made me feel hot and humid as we were recording, and I very much appreciated the drink that you made for this episode in particular.
Julia: I do love tequila during the summer. I think this is going to be my summer drink is going to be tequila. Usually I go gin.
Amanda: Yeah, me, too. Exactly. I like a light rum, a gin. We're really big into gin last summer. But tequila and Moscow, my favs right now.
Julia: You know what the thing is? It's a little bit of saltiness to the drink and then it adds like a nice contrast to whatever sweet thing you're mixing it with. The drink that were made for this one is kind of twist on an Ocean Mist which you can find a link to a traditional Ocean Mist in the description of this podcast.
Amanda: I think an Ocean Mist is my favorite dance move to do on a yacht.
Julia: That is correct. Good job.
Amanda: People who frequently dance on yachts in the summertime are our new patrons. Rose, Iron and Anna as well as our supporting producer level of patrons: Neil, Phillip, Julie, Kristina, Josh, Eeyore, Jessica, Maria, Cami, Ryan, Phil Fresh, and Deborah.
Julia: Your best friends never die. That was depressing as soon as it came out from my mouth. I'm sorry but it's relevant to the episode.
Amanda: It is relevant to the episode. If you want to drink to forget, which we don't always suggest, but if you decide to do that responsibly, you can turn to our friends at shakerandspoon.com. We partnered with Shaker & Spoon who are one of our sponsors and one of our absolute favs to do the legend level boxes for our patrons this month, so the people that get physical merch in the mail from us every single month, they got a classy ass box of cocktail stuff, supplies and a jigger and a juicer and it was so, so good. You can use all of your new supplies to make some delicious pisco related cocktails.
Julia: It was very classy. Our dear friend Leann Davis posted pictures of it on Twitter and I was like, "Dear god. Why didn't I get one of those?"
Amanda: I know. I know. We got to work it out. But if you guys want to go check out Shaker & Spoon which do these incredible cocktail boxes that they send to you every single month, you can go to shakerandspoon.com and use code "spirits" for 20 bucks off your first box.
Julia: You would be joining the ranks of Sandra, Audra, Mercedes, Ashley, Buggie, Ashley Marie, Leann, and Cassie.
Amanda: Yeah, that sounds like a true party as well as the wonderful summer trips that people have been telling us about on Twitter. People are going on road trips. People are going on plane trips. I know that we know somebody that's spending the summer at sea doing like a semester in marine school which is so neat.
Julia: That's cool as hell.
Amanda: Do you know what a trip is a great excuse to do, Julia?
Julia: I think it's a great excuse to show your friend a creepy podcast that will make you think that you're seeing ghosts on the side of the road as you drive through the country.
Amanda: Not creepy at all or like lay on the beach. That's how I listen to creepy podcasts myself as I lay in the sunshine and keep my eyes open as I scan the horizon and listen to creepy podcasts.
Julia: That sounds like you.
Amanda: Yeah. But, listen, if you have friends who are traveling, if you're taking trips with friends, if you're about to go on a trip and you haven't listened to any of the other shows on Multitude, take your friend's phone, subscribe them to Spirits, subscribe them to Potterless, subscribe them to join the party, to Waystation. We have so much great stuff for you. If you like the show, you're going to love the others as well. That's the absolute best way to help us out, to help start our summer off on the right note and keep the show growing.
Julia: Yeah. And keep yourself entertained. There's long days where you're not in school or not at your job and you should enjoy it by listening to creepy ass shit.
Amanda: I love it a lot. That is how we do. Without further ado, enjoy Spirits Podcast episode 81, Bathala and His Daughters.
Julia: Amanda, you know what I love?
Julia: I love complex family dynamics in mythology.
Julia: I know that's a very specific thing to love but here I am talking about it with you.
Amanda: Pretty good podcast to start if you want to talk about it more.
Julia: You know what is also something that I love?
Amanda: Peanut butter pretzel flavor combo.
Amanda: Floral gin.
Julia: Also on top of all of those things,
Amanda: Thank you.
Julia: ... I love amazing mythological daughters.
Julia: This week we are going to talk about the daughters of Bathala, and Bathala who is also known as Bathalang Maylicha or the actor of creation or Bathalang Maycapal or the actor of power is the supreme being and creator of the universe for the Tagalog people of the Philippines.
Amanda: Yo, what's up, Philippines?
Julia: We're heading back to the Philippines. It's been a minute.
Amanda: Yeah. Listeners from the Philippines remain I think the most engaged and national pride listeners of all. Every other week we get a tweet from somebody about the aswang. Keep them coming. I love them.
Julia: I'm going to call back I guess to our aswang episode and be like I apologize in advance for any mispronunciation that I do.
Amanda: We learn as we go.
Julia: We do.
Amanda: We try our best and we are always excited to learn more stuff.
Julia: 100%. Sorry in advance. Let's do this. Let's get a little bit of interesting background about the Tagalog people's beliefs.
Julia: The Tagalog religion is known as Tagalismo because Spain and it is a mix of polytheism and animism which later had influences of Hinduism through trade with Asian states.
When the Spanish colonized the Philippines, they brought Roman Catholicism with them because that's what they always do always, and they forced it upon the Tagalog people in an effort to replace the shamanistic belief systems.
Amanda: I bet there's some syncretism on the horizon.
Julia: Just a little bit. You know how it goes. Even though by the 18th century most Tagalogs were adhering to Catholicism there was a secret passing down of indigenous beliefs to younger generations and preserving the belief system which, let's be real, is my favorite god damn thing in the world and I see you fist pumping in the background.
Amanda: I super am. Good job. good job.
Julia: I know. It's really good. While Bathala predates the arrival of Spanish missionaries, he is later identified with the Christian God, and in some Tagalog languages, specifically Visayan languages, Bathala is synonymous with God.
Julia: Etymologist, my favorite people in the world, believe that the name comes from the Sanskrit word for noble lord, and in Indonesian language, Batara means god and the feminine form is Batari.
Julia: Which I got real into etymology in this episode.
Amanda: I know. Any linguistic etymological diversion that includes Sanskrit is probably going to be great.
Julia: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. 100% of the time. You cannot find me a word that does not fall into that category that is not amazing.
Amanda: Oh, yeah. 100%.
Julia: Try me. Try me.
Amanda: Give me a word with Sanskrit origins that isn't fucking awesome.
Julia: I've got a quick description of Bathala, though it's from a Spanish source so just take that with a grain of salt as we move forward.
Amanda: Yeah, we do our best to find primary sources when we can for people who are experiencing and actually living these beliefs but sometimes historical record is patriarchal and White supremacist and colonial as fuck so we do our best.
Julia: Yup, all those things. I quote. "They said that this God of theirs was in the era before there was heaven or earth or anything else. That he was ab aeterno, from eternity, and not made or created by anybody from anything and that he alone made and created all that we have mentioned simply by his own volition because he wanted to make something so beautiful as the heaven and the earth and that he made and created one man and one woman out of the earth from whom have come and descended all the men and their generations that are in the world." That sounds a little familiar, doesn't it?
Amanda: Yeah. I imagine that the writer of this text was interpreting that as evidence for the rightness of his own presumably Christian beliefs. Wow. Look at this story. It's so similar. This must be the God that I believe in, experienced and told by someone completely alien to me.
Julia: Right. That is a completely valid reading of the source and all of that. I think you could also read it as, hey, as human beings, we tend to come up with the same stories.
Amanda: Exactly. To a Spanish missionary, that's probably what it sounded like. To me, it sounds like, wow, human beings have been asking the same questions all over the world for all time. Where do we come from? Who made us? Where do they come from? It is pretty cool the kinds of, I don't know, the psychology we imagine of a deity, which is by definition so alien and unlike us and bigger than us. But the fact that we imagine they either want to see beauty or they're lonely or they want to try out their skills and level up constantly. I think it's pretty ... I don't want to say adorable, but it's very humanizing,
Julia: It is kind of adorable.
Amanda: ... That human beings imagine the highest form of being as also wanting to look at pretty things and not be lonely.
Julia: I like to just put myself in the heads of the folks who are trying to imagine these things. How do we get here? Something created the universe. What's the something? A god. Who made the god? He has just been there always. Why he make the universe? He wanted something pretty. Okay. Cool, I guess.
Julia: How did humans get there? He made them out of dirt. Why dirt?
Amanda: It was there.
Julia: Because it's there. I just like it. I just like the kind of weird improv circles that must have happened in order to philosophically come up with a reason behind creation.
Amanda: Yeah. Not to say that it's a story that doesn't mean a lot to people.
Julia: Right. No, of course it does.
Amanda: They're like very sophisticated theological reasoning that people have discovered/come up with over history. But I personally find real connection to people who have come before me by imagining them in a really humanized way.
Amanda: I'm thinking of kids as asking like, "Mom, why is the sky blue?" The god made it that way or like why fire? Okay. Zeus got mad one day. It really makes me smile. It makes me have a lot more empathy and understanding for people outside my own time.
Julia: Oh, yeah. I prescribe to the belief that human beings are very intelligent. But when we're just starting to figure something out, it takes us a minute to get there.
Amanda: Also it's the most distilled vanilla extract version of a story that gets passed on over time.
Julia: Oh, yeah.
Amanda: Really strip it down to the basics.
Julia: For sure.
Amanda: Which is why I love when we're able to bring really lyrical and poetic sources into a discussion because that's so rare. So often it's like the fewest number of words possible that gets transported across the centuries and the millennia.
Julia: Yes. I completely agree. I didn't want to make it seem as though we are dismissing the concept of creation stories.
Amanda: For sure.
Amanda: That's how we understand it and wrap our minds around it. Humor.
Julia: I put myself in the situation. If I were trying to understand why the universe was made.
Amanda: For the first time, I can't imagine it.
Julia: I'm not good at it.
Amanda: I know, I know.
Julia: I would suck at it.
Amanda: Me, too.
Julia: Okay. Moving back on to Bathala. Part of the worship of Bathala has to do with anito, which literally means the literal act of worship which basically it is offered prayers and sacrifices to ancestral spirits.
Amanda: All right. It makes sense.
Julia: The devotions are given to the ancestral spirits because Bathala is a great lord, and no one can speak with him directly because he lives in Kaluwálhatian which basically is heaven. The ancestral spirits provide for the living for Bathala so they're kind of a intermediary.
Amanda: Oh, I see. I thought the train was going the other way around.
Amanda: Yes. The ancestral spirits stand between heaven and earth and they provide what Bathala can't because he's too far away.
Julia: When a person dies, the soul of that person becomes one of the spirits that serves Bathala.
Amanda: Oh, yeah. That's really nice.
Amanda: And kind of a really interesting example of a bigger concept that those who go on or around you and can't participate in your life in some way, this idea that someone who has died becomes a part of the fundamental act of a deity's love and keeping of human beings is pretty lovely.
Julia: Right, and that they're still part of a community and network even after they die.
Julia: They're still assisting the people that they love.
Amanda: Yeah, and the community stays together and I think it's pretty cool.
Julia: Yeah, I do, too. There are a couple of different accounts on how Bathala made the world.
Amanda: All right.
Julia: One story tells how Bathala was so gigantic that the sun shone bright beside him as he hunched under the sun too tall to straighten up without burning himself.
Amanda: Oh, my.
Julia: Which I like that a lot.
Amanda: I got some Sisyphean vibes over here.
Julia: One day, he pierced the eye of the sun with a bolo generating just enough heat to create and sustain life and was able to finally stand straight pushing the colder portion of the sky just beyond the earth. They understood the space was cold. How cool is that?
Amanda: Amazing. Yeah.
Julia: Oh, my god.
Amanda: And that the light and heat of the sun can be really destructive if it's anything less than literally the 10th of the scale that earth currently exist in.
Julia: It's so freaking cool. I love human beings.
Amanda: Also the ability to conceptualize the sun as a really big thing that is far away and also huge, that's not intuitive.
Amanda: You look up at the sky or you look at a cartoon of the sun rising and falling, it's like the atmosphere is like a closed just sphere that just rotates a bunch. That's easy to come up with. The sun is on a track and moves back and forth and is small and whatever. But that is pretty amazing.
Julia: Yeah, it's really cool. Another story tells how there were once three gods in the universe: Bathala who was the caretaker of the earth; Ulilang Kaluluwa, a huge serpent who lived in the clouds; and Galang Kaluluwa, a winged god who loved to travel. Same.
Julia: Tag yourself. But they did not know each other.
Amanda: Okay. Do they know of each other?
Julia: No. They didn't know each other. They didn't know of each other until the moments of this story.
Amanda: Oh, man. Don't you love that trope in fiction as well of like I thought I was the only one and meet another person in my tribe? Wah.
Julia: It's real cool. I love it. Ulilang would visit places and earth was one of his favorite places to visit because he was lonely. That's the same guy. One day he ran into Bathala and Ulilang was not pleased because he saw Bathala as a rival.
Amanda: Okay. I mean, that happens.
Julia: He challenged Bathala to a battle to decide who would be the ruler of the universe. But after fighting for three days and three nights, Bathala slayed him, burning his remains.
Amanda: Smart. I mean, the dead can come back most of the time so burn those remains.
Julia: Bathala then met Galang, the winged god who wandered into Bathala's home. They became best friends for many years.
Julia: Which is very sweet.
Julia: He's like, "Hey, I just found this house and you seem cool. Let's become friends."
Amanda: I'm sensing a but.
Julia: But then Galang became sick and asked Bathala to bury him where Ulilang's body had been burned when he died.
Julia: He dies. Bathala does this for his friend and out of the grave the two bodies formed together to create a tall coconut tree, the first ever.
Amanda: Whoa. I love that.
Julia: Bathala, inspired by the coconut tree, decides to create creatures for the earth building the first men and women a house out of the trunk of the coconut tree and allowing them to drink the milk and eat the coconut. Eventually learning how to make clothing and tools and rope from the tree.
Amanda: Yeah. And like the coconut tree as Moana taught us has everything you need for the most part.
Amanda: That's a really good first object.
Amanda: And predates human beings which is pretty cool.
Julia: Yeah, I like it. He's like, "Oh, I need something to eat these coconut things and make stuff with it. Cool. Cool. Cool. We'll make people. That seems cool." That seems like the opposite way that things work but I like it. You know what I mean?
Amanda: Yeah, yeah.
Julia: We, as human beings, are very much like, "I need a thing. I'm going to make that thing." Where this God was like, "I love this tree. I'm going to make people to use it."
Amanda: Yeah, it's very beautiful though because in its use that thing becomes even more useful and special even though it necessitates the consumption of the thing in order to give it this different purpose.
Julia: Bathala had a lot of kids. The ones that I like to focus on today are the three daughters that Bathala had by mortal women because I think that gives them a nice little twist and I like their stories the best.
Amanda: Also gives you the ethos of large Irish families which are some are going to be okay.
Julia: Some are going to be fine. It's cool.
Amanda: You got 12. Some will be fine. Don't worry.
Julia: We're going to start with Mayari who is the oldest of these daughters.
Julia: One of Mayari's infamous stories was about her rivalry with Apolaki. Apolaki was the son of Anagolay, the goddess of lost things, which, oh, man,
Julia: ... I want to dig into that but another time.
Amanda: That's a tombstone epitaph for you, goddess of lost things. Imagine who will come to ... Oh, I love it. I love it.
Julia: And Dumakulem who is the guardian of the mountains. They were born around the same time, Mayari and Apolaki. The light that shone upon the world and enabled the people and animals to see came from the bright eyes of both Apolaki and Mayari. They were loved by all because they provided this light that allowed people to see everyday.
Amanda: I mean, yeah.
Julia: Because the light of the world shone continuously from their eyes, it was always daytime on earth.
Amanda: Okay, okay.
Julia: In the story, Bathala grow sick and falls into a deep slumber and Apolaki and Mayari have a quarrel each wanting to take his place and rule the world alone.
Amanda: Okay. That's classic succession drama here.
Julia: Yes, for sure.
Amanda: Maybe the first.
Julia: Apolaki told Mayari, "I am the man and I will succeed Bathala to the throne." I know. But Mayari said that she will be done to take her father's place as she was her father's daughter. They fought until words could no longer express their rage, so they picked up clubs and began to battle.
Amanda: Oh, no. I like that they started with words though. Good effort, y'all.
Julia: They need to debate first and then pick up weapons. That seems fair. They fought until Apolaki was able to strike Mayari in the face blinding her in one eye.
Amanda: Oh, no. Slash, I see where this is going and I love it.
Julia: Seeing what he had done, Apolaki stopped the fight and apologized offering to share the world equally between them saying, "Let us reign by turns and be friends." Mayari agrees and they split their reign into two. Apolaki becomes the sun flooding the world with warm light because the light beams from his two bright eyes still filled and the light still filled the world while he ruled.
Amanda: There you go.
Julia: Mayari became known as the moon bathing the world in cool and gentle light because she was blind in one eye.
Amanda: I'll take moons better.
Julia: Totally agree.
Amanda: I mean, think about all the stories we've heard the moon involved in.
Julia: Always, always.
Amanda: So much better.
Julia: 100% of the time.
Amanda: You got gardens. You got cool nighttime flowers. You got wolves. You got fertility tie ins. You got tarot. I love it.
Julia: Yeah. Just a note because I'm sure someone will bring it up. In some stories, Apolaki is also known as Adlaw and is one of Bathala's other children which adds a whole other level to the story.
Amanda: Oh, of this sibling situation?
Julia: Yes. Because they're not siblings in the story that I told. But in some stories they are siblings. It's a whole thing.
Amanda: I like though that they can both be what they are and be complementary. I mean, I love this kind of balance whether it's our very first episode with Persephone and the seasons or like the very many gods and goddesses we've talked about that embody diametrically opposed things. I think it's really instructive for just your life to hear examples of how in mythology and folklore different things can actually both be valuable and be more valuable for the presence of the other. It doesn't have to be one winning out.
Julia: Right. I like the idea, too, because a lot of times when you're looking at folklore about the sun and the moon, they're like rivals a lot of the time. This was the case there but they decide, hey, this is stupid that we're fighting. Let's share the universe itself. You know what I mean?
Julia: I think that's a much better ending to the story in my personal opinion.
Amanda: Absolutely. As anybody near the poles of the earth will tell you, all night or all day, not great.
Julia: No, it kind of sucks. Aside from the story, Mayari is known to be the most charming and beautiful of the goddesses and is also the goddess of combat, war, revolution, hunt, weaponry, beauty, strength, the moon and the night.
Amanda: What more do you need?
Julia: I mean, she's basically got it all covered.
Amanda: Agriculture, whatever, fine.
Julia: Just goals honestly. In her honor, there is a courtship tradition that takes place on the night of a full moon. Suitors give a corsage of sampaguita, which is a type of flower I think, to the woman that they're interested in and if she accepts them, she wears the corsage and the two pledge their love with the moon as their witness.
Amanda: Love it.
Julia: It's really cute.
Amanda: Sun god, get at me.
Julia: Get at our level. By ours, I mean we are both moon goddesses.
Amanda: Round, cracky, sometimes got half a face. Sometimes not there, affects the water around me. Moon goddess.
Julia: Correct. That's us. That's both of us. We're going to move on to Tala who is the goddess of the morning and evening star and her name means bright star.
Amanda: I am hearing some liminal space vibes and I love it a lot.
Amanda: Some transition between night and dark and those are the same thing and light. Every year on RuPaul's Drag Race, there is this thing called Snatch Game where the queens dress as celebrities and have a panel show. It's fucking incredible to see someone was Maya Angelou and like quote her poetry. It was incredible but they brought back my favorite Snatch Game participant of all time who is a queen dressed up as Judge Judy and RuPaul loves Judge Judy and to see RuPaul just laugh over just the appearance of this queen in Judge Judy drag was the best thing ever.
Julia: I love it. That sounds amazing.
Amanda: So good.
Julia: With Tala, there is a story about how the sun god in the story is known as Arao and Mayari both had large families of stars but Mayari was worried that her stars cannot survive the heat of Arao. They both agreed to destroy their stars but when Arao devoured his because -vore.
Julia: Just made myself laugh with a poor joke. It's fine.
Amanda: Listen. Don't yuck my yum. Live your life.
Julia: Mayari instead hid all of her star family in the clouds where they would occasionally emerge because they're clouds. They're not super ... They're patchy at times.
Amanda: They're very chill.
Julia: Arao discovers this and is angered and eternally is pursuing Mayari in attempt to destroy her, hence the sun and moon going round and round.
Amanda: The cycle. I like them just equitably sharing earth better but fair enough.
Julia: At dawn, Mayari hides the stars and brings them forth only when Tala, who is the evening and morning star and is first to appear and last to disappear at night, says that the sun is too far away to capture the rest of the stars.
Amanda: That is very beautiful. I like that image a lot.
Julia: I like that imagery, really. It's awesome. I love it.
Amanda: Do you remember when we first learned that clouds were water? Do you remember that? It was in-
Julia: No, I don't.
Amanda: I mean, you might have learned it as a kid. But for me, it was in eighth grade earth science where we were learning about the various states of water and then for whatever reason the first time I put it together that clouds were just water hanging in the air. I was like, "Wah."
Julia: Oh, my gosh.
Amanda: It was the coolest thing I ever heard. It was amazing.
Julia: I like your cloud revelation. I like that it took you to the age 13.
Amanda: Listen, I have other strengths.
Julia: All right. I bet you do. Just not pop culture or science stuff.
Amanda: I've taken none of my earth science regions. I missed that hundo so well.
Julia: Tala is said to have supported the creation of the Tagalog traditional constellations and uses light spheres or orbs to ferry men to safety at night. This of course was ruined by the Spaniards.
Amanda: Damn it, Spain.
Julia: Who demonized the light orbs and called them Santelmos or St. Elmo's fire.
Amanda: Yeah. Boo.
Julia: They are now considered a creature in Philippine mythology and are called a ball of fire in fields and swamps. It bounces along and rolls away. It changes into a beast with fire in its mouth. Travelers and fishermen follow it at night. They walk and walk until they are tired out. Then they cannot find their way home. They walk into the deep mud and thorny bushes. They get dizzy and become insane. They must reverse their clothes to send it away. Then they can find their way home.
This actually mirrors a bunch of different trickster spirits from Western folklore, so it's not completely surprising that the Spaniards adapted those lights into something,
Julia: ... Malicious because it's what they were familiar with.
Amanda: Yeah, that's how syncretism goes is either you subsume an existing tradition and say, "Yup, that one is Jesus. Don't worry. That's God. Yup, that, too."
Julia: It's a demon.
Amanda: Or you make it part of demonology.
Julia: Rather than them being guides from the goddess, which is a much more pleasant imagery.
Amanda: Yeah, I was going to say it's such a nice departure from this will-o'-the-wisp style inherently malicious trickery type thing.
Julia: Nope. Instead, they are tricksters that purposely get travelers lost which kind of sucks. Thanks, Spain.
Amanda: Damn it colonialism. Come on.
Julia: The last is Hanan who unfortunately is not as popular as her sisters. I couldn't find as much information on her. She's listed within the trio constantly but ...
Amanda: She's the Peggy.
Julia: Yeah. She's the Peggy. She is the goddess of the morning. The first prayer of the day is given to Bathala, Apolaki and her as a sign of the new day.
Amanda: All right.
Julia: She is involved during the entrance of a new age or a new phase in a person's life. She is offered bountiful harvest and prayers during the birth of a child, the transition into adulthood, the death of a person, the entrance into planting season, the beginning of a new harvest and the start of the annual cycle.
Amanda: Love it.
Julia: There's your liminal.
Amanda: There she is. My liminal goddess. I love it.
Julia: These prayers must be done at the break of dawn because morning and her symbols are the dawning sun and of course the rooster.
Julia: Yes. That's our daughters and Bathala.
Amanda: I love them all. I love this creation myth. I love the Philippines.
Julia: Me, too. We should do a trip to the Philippines. That's going to be like a high, high Patreon goal.
Amanda: I know, right? I don't know. I'm just saying I think we can make a TV show and I think it can be about traveling and experiencing folklore in different places. That's all I'm saying.
Julia: Hey, hey. TV networks, hit us up.
Amanda: Hey, if you're a TV producer or you know one, get in touch.
Julia: Get in touch. I think that was a rather sweet episode.
Amanda: I do. I like it a lot. I like that it's stuff that I look at and experience everyday. I love that version of a benevolent will-o'-the-wisp, a guiding force. I also just love ... I know this is a little bit inherently gendered, but I love stories where either it's true or fiction like women have to resort to subterfuge and they don't have the inherent power in society and aren't gifted with resources and the power to do things so they make do with what they have and it's hiding, it's doing things in the background. It's like the slow burn, long con. I just think it's great. It's doing what you can with what you have and being bad ass despite society not letting you be.
Julia: I 100% agree and I love stories about empowering women.
Amanda: Right on.
Julia: And like literally fighting for their control over the world.
Amanda: I know.
Julia: That's cool as hell.
Amanda: I love it in the version that you shared today. Her answer to, "Well, I'm the boy," was, "Well, I am the girl. What do you want?"
Julia: I'm the daughter. Fuck you. Doesn't mean you're better than me.
Amanda: Oh, it's awesome. Listeners, as you look up at the sun and stars and moon, remember ...
Julia: Stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
Amanda: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider, with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
Julia: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @spiritspodcast on Twitter, instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website, as well as a form to send us your urban legends, at spiritspodcast.com.
Amanda: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, for all kinds of behind-the-scenes stuff. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras, with so much more available too: recipe cards, director’s commentaries, exclusive merch, and real physical gifts.
Julia: We are a founding member of Multitude, a collective of independent audio professionals. If you like Spirits you will love the other shows that live on our website, at multitude.productions.
Amanda: And above all else, if you liked what you heard today, share us with your friends! That is the very best way to help us keep on growing.
Julia: Thank you so much for listening. Til next time!